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Posted by: seeker ® 05/13/2002, 13:40:25 Author Profile Mail author |
Malachi 3:1- BEHOLD, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts. In its full context, this chapter refers to the second coming. So here are a few questions to think about... Who is the messesnger that the Lord will send? Where is the temple that He will come to? Let me know your thoughts on the matter! -The Seeker- |
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Re: Something to ponder Re: Something to ponder -- seeker Top of thread Archive
Posted by: rpcman ®
05/13/2002, 14:50:24
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In its full context, this chapter refers to the second coming.
Unless you believe in the New Testament in which Mark uses it in the case of the first coming.
http://www.2think.org/hundredsheep/bible/ntprob.shtml#MARK_ISAIAH
Modified by rpcman at Mon, May 13, 2002, 14:50:52
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Bad source of info Re: Re: Something to ponder -- rpcman Top of thread Archive
Posted by: Seeker ®
05/13/2002, 15:57:40
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I think you need to study your scriptures better....that is a bad link! Look up Isaiah 40:3 and THEN tell me that he did not prohesy about John the baptist. -The Seeker-
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Re: Something to ponder Re: Something to ponder -- seeker Top of thread Archive
Posted by: Lynn ®
05/17/2002, 12:32:49
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Dear seeker,
We know that John the Baptist was the messenger who was written about by the Prophets, to announce the first coming (Mark 1:1-11)
Isaiah 40:10) says,"Behold, the Lord God will come with strong hand, (strength) and his arm shall rule for him; behold, his reward is with him and his work before him." compare (Rev.22:12)
Because the above scripture says, God comes with a strong hand and his arm shall rule for him, I would have to understand this would refer to the second coming of Christ. And the reward is with him. (see also Prov. 13:13)
And before even this, Isaiah 40: 2 says,"that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned, for she hath received of the Lord's hand double for all her sins. and verse 4 says, "every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low and the crooked shall be make straight and rough places plain. And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed and all flesh shall see it together for the mouth of the Lord has spoken it."
So they will be made to see, in the second coming. Many did not see or accept Christ with eyes of understanding, but they will be made to see when Christ comes in his second coming.
verse 8 "For all flesh is like grass, and all it's flory is like a blossom of grass; the frass ecomes withered and the flower falls off, but the saying of Jehovah endures foever, " Well, this is the saying, this which has been declared to ou as good news." compare (1 Peter 1:22-25)
Isaiah 40:9) "Oh, Zion, that bringest good tidings, get thee up into the high mountain; O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah, Behold your God! Behold, the Lord will come with strong hand and his arm shall rule with him..."
Isaiah 42:22-23 "But this is a people robbed and spoiled; they are all of them snared in holes and they are hid in prison houses; they are for a prey and none delivereth. for a spoil, and none saith, Restore. Who among you will give ear to this? Who will hearken and hear for the time to come?"
I believe they are all trapped inside various 'religions. Why? verse 24,says, "they would not walk in his ways, neither were they obedient unto his law, Therefore, he poured upon him the fury of his anger, and the strength of battle and it hath set him on fire round about, yet he knew not and it burned him, yet he laid it not to heart."
So, I believe the messenger of the second coming could be those who God pours his spirit upon and they will spring up as among the grass, as willows by the water courses. One shall say, "I am the Lord's. (Is. 44:3-5)
Lynn
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Re: Something to ponder Re: Re: Something to ponder -- Lynn Top of thread Archive
Posted by: Seeker ®
05/21/2002, 01:26:13
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I am pleased!
I was glad to read you message Lynn! I like that you were honest and open, and did not strike at me! Commendable! I thank you for that!
Although I was using that scripture to make refernce to Mark, you shed some better light on it. I will be honest, I did not read the entire passage, but found the refernce after searching through the scriptures.
However, even if the scripture is referring to the second coming, it just backs up my original post....who is it that is supposed to prepare the way?
I know that the Lord can pour his spirit out upon any man at any given time, but for someone to prepare the way, he must be a leader! A trail-blazer is not someone who follows a path. Today we have many people who have blazed their own trail in a sense that they have created many religions. Who is to say that one of those is not blessed by the hand of the Lord? And if one of them has His hand in it, there can only be one, so as not to confuse his people. G-d has a law. That is clear from the scriptures. But our job is to find out who (if anyone) has that law in the earth today!
I don´t believe that G-d would allow His children to wander in darkness. I believe that he has, or will prepare someone to "gather the flocks." How can He come to His people if His people are not united? There must be someone who has the whole truth because G-d is a G-d of orginization! He is not chaos. One passage on this can also be found in Isaiah in 41:29 "Behold, they are all vanity; their works are nothing: their molten images are wind and confusion." Anyone who is not of G-d is confusion. Too many of us try to make up our own answers. We try to logically explain too much. But if we just calm down and take it to the Lord, He will direct us in all things. Even in how we should follow Him and where!
I believe that the key to understanding all this is this: The Lord will not choose a leader as His leader, but He will make one! Did we put ourselves in our positions of power and leadership? Or did the Lord call us to such a position? Are we seeking to build up and edify the Lord and His truth, or are we seeking to destroy it? Anyone who says that G-d does not have any specific religion and that He is everywhere, must be careful with their steps. Anyone who fights or rebels or rises up against anyone else, is of Satan! Christ had many enemies, most of which were of the true church at the time, but they did rise up against Him saying he was evil. Who is the evil one? He who accuses or he who is accused? We all know the scriptures concerning that.
Well, now I´ve gotten a little carried away, but I encourage you (speaking to everyone) to consider this. Don´t be led away by the "vain ambitions of the world." Ask yourself, "Am I seeking to help and edify my brother, or am I seeking to bring him down and destroy him?" If you are for the Lord, who can possibly be against you? What have you to fear if you feel safe where you are? Why do so many people seek the destruction of that which is good and has clearly brought forth many good fruits? Stop fighting in a lost cause. For if it be a church of man, let it be, for it will wither and die with time, but if it be the church of G-d, then there is nothing you can do to stop it. Either way, let it be! Stop wasting your time and energy fighting, and instead, occupy your time to learning, education, and good fruits toward your fellow men!
Okay, I have said what I wanted to say. I have spoken in the excitement of my heart, so I truely hope that you all give at least one thought to the words I´ve said!
-The Seeker-
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Re: Something to ponder Re: Re: Something to ponder -- Seeker Top of thread Archive
Posted by: Lynn ®
05/21/2002, 15:28:43
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Dear Seeker,
Thanks for your post. Yes, this is very true, we need to build up one another's faith, but faith in what? The scriptures say , Jesus. We are to put our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation.
It is interestiing that the scriptures also tell us to keep awake, because you do not know when Christ is coming, and it will be sudden and that some 'virgins' will not be prepared. The annointing is 'knowledge from God. If we have this 'oil' in our resceptacles, we will be ready for the return of our master. And he will finish our training. The scriptures in Isaiah indicate God's people will be scattered. I have noticed, that when one truly is a truth seeker, one quickly gets into trouble with the church they are attending. I got into trouble with mine when I began to follow Apostle Pauls' advice........to examine all things. And when I examined the scriptures, and then made Christ Jesus my leader, instead of the "Church leaders of my local congregation, then they were preparing to expel me from the congregation and to label me as someone who practiced unclean conduct.
Their past teachings were that they were prophets and later on, they began teaching they were never inspired and they were not prophets, and later, an article was put in writing that they 'never said they were prophets........?? go figure???? IT was then, I decided to put my trust in God, I know they mean well, but meaning well or being sincere, isn't enough. For example, look how Apostle Paul terrified the early Christians in his zeal for God. Had he known the early prophetic writings concerning Christ's coming, he would have been searching for him and would have been ready to recieve him by what the prophecies said about him.
God loved him, non the less. He knew his heart. I believe there will be a day when there will be a call for everyone to get out of Religion. I believe the whole realm of false religion is called 'Babylon the Great' spoken of in Revelation. And God calls those who are to get out, "MY PEOPLE" indicating his divine mercy. Once religion is pitched into eternal destruction, she will never be able to mislead mankind again.
If I am in error, please correct me. For I know nothing on my own, but trust God's description of her to be evident. She wears purple, and wears a skirt, and a Bride and Bridegroom can be found in her, as well as many lit candles.
God is going to put it into the heart of the beast she is riding to turn on her and to strip her naked. I believe this beast is the political element of which she has continued to ride (control and or influence) for centuries.
Anyway, I recall a scripture, perhaps you know it, where a question was asked concerning the time of the end , Someone asked, "Will we really find the faith?"
God's peace be with you,
Lynn
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Fictional "prophecies", fictional "Jesus" Re: Something to ponder -- seeker Top of thread Archive
Posted by: Martin ®
05/22/2002, 12:12:18
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Seeker (and to a lesser extent Lynn), First, whenever the term "The Lord" was used in the Hebrew Bible (the so-called Christian "Old Testament"), it refers to their one and only God, Yahweh. It most emphatically does NOT hint at any sub-deity or shared deity or anything else and most emphatically does NOT presage the "Jesus" of the Gospels, which would be an idea the Jewish author of Malachi (not to mention all other Jews) would have found to be HIDEOUSLY vile and blasphemous!! How could you not know that very basic and obvious fact about Judaism?
You are making the same fatal mistake as the vast majority of the Christian world: Reading the Hebrew Bible through the distorting circus-mirror lens of the Gospels. Your interpretations and thinking is thus biased and wrong-headed.
There is powerful, compelling evidence that all of the New Testament Gospels are fictional, allegorical works which sought to impart moral, religious lessons to the author's various sects and were likely never intended to be taken as actual historical accounts. The anonymous authors of those Gospels simply scoured the Hebrew Bible for stories or even just out-of-context statements with which they could further flesh our their pious fictions. Psalms 22 was a particularly rich source for helping them to achieve their literary purposes, and Malachi 3 was just one of the less-important stories that proved helpful in establishing the ostensibly divine roots of their literary hero, Jesus. The authors wanted to emphasize that this mythical figure at the heart of their stories be heeded for being supremely wise and authoritative, so as a vitally important part of their midrash (as it is called), they looked for textual elements in the Hebrew Bible that they imagined were prophetic or could be made to appear prophetic, which could then in turn be coerced into being somehow "fulfilled" by the fictional Jesus. The Latin term for what the Gospel authors did is prophetia ex eventu -- "prophecies" manufactured after the fact.
It is for that reason ALONE that "Jesus" appears to be the fulfillment of various prophecies, many of which were never really prophecies waiting to be fulfilled in the first place. A good example is Isaiah 7:14, which is OBVIOUSLY not a prophecy that Jesus would be born of a virgin, even though the authors of "Matthew" and "Luke" grabbed Isaiah's words totally out of context to make it appear that Jesus fulfilled that misrepresented "prophecy". (For details, see my post in the archives: Biblical LIES of prophecy
Another vital component in their literary creations was to mix in some of their knowledge (however inaccurate) about historical personages and events as a kind of narrative hook that is still enormously popular even in today's fiction. For example, spy fiction is made more enjoyably "realistic" when placed in the context of the actual, historical events of the Cold War with historical figures such as Khrushchev or Andropov, even though the story itself is still pure fiction.
That's why you find John the Baptist referenced in the Gospels. The Jewish historian Josephus records the Baptist as a historical figure (quite unlike any Jesus of Nazareth, whom Josephus most likely never heard of, contrary to the later fictional Christian insertions would have it appear). John the Baptist was something of a gold mine to the Gospel fictionalists, who would naturally have been added to their literary creations as both a historical figure AND someone about which they could plunder the Hebrew Bible for stories that could be made to appear to be about him!
But, as one would expect ONLY of fictional narratives, the various anonymous authors could not even agree on how to portray their invented interactions between their Jesus character and the Baptist. What we actually see on this point is persuasive evidence of fictionalization, because the author of "Matthew" isn't comfortable with "Mark's" fiction, "Luke" isn't comfortable with "Matthew", and "John" contradicts them all!
In any case, if you read the rest of Malachi 3 without the extremely distorting lens of your irrational belief in the Messianic Legend of Christ, you will see that there is terribly little correspondence between what Malachi was talking about and what the Gospel fictions describe. Surely you would not describe the Gospel's "Jesus" as a "blazing fire that refines metal" or a "soap that whitens clothing", and least of all could it be said that this mythical Jesus "purified the Levites"!!
Your implied interpretation, Seeker, is thus seen to be badly mistaken. (And please don't give me the runaround you gave others as to not believing in what you say).
- Martin
Modified by Martin at Wed, May 22, 2002, 15:31:12
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