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Posted by: Jersey Girl ® 04/21/2002, 01:40:13 Author Profile Mail author |
I don't know exactly how to state this so I'll just jump in as best I can. Are churches held to fair labor practices and standards? Or are they exempt because they're churches? If there are no formal in-house grievance procedures, and you feel you've been maltreated...what are your options? I have more questions...but let's see if anyone can answer the initial questions. Thanks! Vicki Modified by Jersey Girl at Sun, Apr 21, 2002, 01:43:07 |
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Re: Question for anybody Re: Question for anybody -- Jersey Girl Top of thread Archive
Posted by: JAK1 ®
04/21/2002, 11:51:39
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Hi Vicki, What do you mean by “fair”? in that question? As you know religion is a commodity which is to be accepted enthusiastically without critical review. What is unfair? Who decides the fairness of “labor practices” in religion? I suspect that is “decided” by essentially imperial review within the individual denominations who determine the employment criteria for those who work for each denomination. Clearly there is no universal notion for “fair labor practices and standards” across denominational divides. Small start-up church groups answer to no one. There are certain criteria, however, in denominations the size of the United Methodist Church and many others. BUT, even so, a rural church may be serviced by a preacher who also services one or two OTHER churches since no single SMALL church can afford full time support for a preacher.
In addition, some churches have several pastors, each with specific responsibilities and assignments in a congregation of 3,000 (for example). The exemption (as you make reference) is dependent upon forces and factors which are peculiar to a given situation. Many denominations DO have formal “grievance procedures.” Preachers can ASK for transfer for a variety of reasons depending upon the structure of the particular denomination with which they are affiliated. Of course, you recognize there are more employees than just preachers. The criteria is different for custodians.
The short answer to your question is there are no universal standards for “fair labor practices and standards.” A particular click within a particular congregation may decide to oust the preacher for any displeasure. If that click is in power, it can likely affect any change it wishes. There may be an internal quarrel and bitter conclusion, but such things happen frequently. Preachers or others “serve” at the pleasure of those who pay the dues...regardless of how that reality may be characterized by individuals or the church.
Consider the trauma in the Roman Catholic Church regarding sexual issues today. Consider how it has been handled in the past and what the Church is currently being forced by public exposure to do. What was once hidden from view is now exposed. Proposals for solutions abound, and they are different in various parts of the world.
You raise questions for which I think some answers are reflected in my response here.
Because of independence of religious organizations, and because of morés which vary from place to place as well as other reasons, there are not objective standards applied with universality.
JAK
Modified by JAK1 at Sun, Apr 21, 2002, 11:57:03
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Re: Question for anybody Re: Re: Question for anybody -- JAK1 Top of thread Archive
Posted by: Jersey Girl ®
04/21/2002, 13:48:28
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JAK,
Thank you for your reply. You misunderstood the nature of the question. I'd like to discuss it further, at length off the board. Perhaps you could email me? Thanks...
Vicki
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Re: Question for anybody Re: Re: Question for anybody -- Jersey Girl Top of thread Archive
Posted by: JAK1 ®
04/22/2002, 21:15:50
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Vicki, I did sent you an e-mail. Hope you received it.
JAK
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Re: Question for anybody Re: Question for anybody -- Jersey Girl Top of thread Archive
Posted by: rdl ®
04/21/2002, 16:16:38
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I assume you are speaking from a legal standpoint. I don't see how they can be. The Catholic Church and CoJCoLDS (just off the top of my head) by nature of their extreme patriarchy cannot possibly follow legal fair labor practices and standards. I don't have my handy-dandy list of labor no-nos with me but I'm sure there is mention of discrimination on the basis of gender. It does vary from state to state but I would have to assume that churches are generally exempt.
Perhaps there is a labor law lawyer handy to answer your question.
rdl
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Re: Question for anybody Re: Re: Question for anybody -- rdl Top of thread Archive
Posted by: JAK1 ®
04/21/2002, 21:13:17
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We don’t need the lawyer. Your analysis is correct, rdl. There are no “fair labor” standards for which there is any universal application in the context of Vicki’s questions.
Since “labor” related issues are well privatized in religious organizations, there is no overseer for religious organizations. Even within particular denominations, there is much latitude in application of “fair labor” practices. Some members of the clergy work like hell :-) and get paid no more than those who work less. The same applies to living accommodations afforded those who “work” for religious institutions of any kind. Missionaries in third world countries exposed to deadly disease hardly have the same treatment with regard to “fair labor.”
JAK
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Re: Question for anybody Re: Question for anybody -- Jersey Girl Top of thread Archive
Posted by: Alf Omega ®
04/21/2002, 18:54:37
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I'm no lawyer, but: Generally, churches are exempt from most federal legislation governing labor practices. You might want to consult the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission's web site.
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Re: Exactly so! Re: Re: Question for anybody -- Alf Omega Top of thread Archive
Posted by: JAK1 ®
04/21/2002, 21:11:25
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Re: Question for anybody Re: Question for anybody -- Jersey Girl Top of thread Archive
Posted by: lancslad ®
04/21/2002, 21:27:08
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Hi , I hope no one would sue the church, and how would you get heaven to pay up?:)
seriously though I think an employee would be subject to protection, but doubt if many would seek redress.
hi
LL
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