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Posted by: Jonathan ® 02/13/2002, 09:53:19 Author Profile Mail author |
Greetings, Here is a notification I am sending out about an event
You can help me by either joining me, or by offering suggestions on where I can bone up on debunking the claims of anti-science anti-evolution hostile-God-loving Biblical literalists. The event is taking place in Salt Lake City this weekend at the Mormon Temple Square. Here is a copy of an announcement I have been sending out: ------------------------- After some recent experiences at the gates of Temple Square I have come to the conclusion that there is a strong need at such times as these to protest conservative religion. The people inside the gates are brain washed, and most of the anti-science anti-evolution anti-freedom-of-choice biblical literalists outside the gate are brain washed as well. The hard line Mormons and the conservative Christians all worship hostile despotic Gods. I am now in the process of creating a new pamphlet elaborating on these points, and I do plan to make up some placards which may read something like the following: The gods of Hard Line Mormonism and of conservative
Does your hostile despotic God belong in prison? We need freedom FROM religion! Non-religious recovery from Mormonism:
God is Santa Clause for Adults Come on in. We're waiting for you!
-------- I do have some appreciation for liberal religion, but it is my view that conservative religion of any type is just another form of brain washing & self deception. If you are interested in joining me within the next few days please let me know. Alien and/or hostile God costumes are welcome, as well as relevant free thinking advocacy material. Advocacy for science, free thinking, a/non/post-theism, or extremely liberal religion would be acceptable (as far as this gathering, but of course anyone is free to speak just as the conservative Xtians are free to speak). The points of focus would be the south gate of Temple Square, and the south west corner of the Temple Square block, or the north gate if there's a big crowd there waiting to enter the conference center, but we'll start at the south gate. As for when, I'm shooting for Saturday from 12PM to 4PM, with random additional times during the next week and a half. I don't know if any of you have seen the hateful and angry messages from the common protester at temple square. Most advocate an angry god in one form or another. I think there is a place for anger against Mormonism and against conservative religion. But it is really sad that most of the people both inside & outside the gate are brain washed (religious literalists of one sort or another). Jonathan fly.to/corax listen.to/yourbrain
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? Re: Protest the brain washed in & out of Temple Sqaure -- Jonathan Top of thread Archive
Posted by: someone ®
02/13/2002, 11:41:11
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"by offering suggestions on where I can bone up on debunking the claims of anti-science anti-evolution hostile-God-loving Biblical literalists." Jonathan,
I would think anyone with the type of passion you display for the scientific method would already have plenty of sources for effectively debunking your target religions. Surely, no sound thinking rational atheist would make the rather strong claims you are here without having first done plenty of reading and careful study on the subject.
Are your accusations here the result of laborious scientific study on your part, or are you simply giving us your testimony?
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Oh please, someone! Re: ? -- someone Top of thread Archive
Posted by: Eric ®
02/13/2002, 18:16:54
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someone wrote: "Are your accusations here the result of laborious scientific study on your part, or are you simply giving us your testimony?" Noah's Ark is possible? What about the OT God killing all of the first born (including babies and little children) in Egypt? That must've been really nice!
What about the idea of Adam and Eve being the first two humans on Earth? That's not anit-evolutionist?
How about some Southern Baptist men taking 1 Timothy 2 and 1 Corinthians 11 too seriously?
I suggest you think next time before question an argument that doesn't need to state the obvious.
Eric
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?? Re: Oh please, someone! -- Eric Top of thread Archive
Posted by: someone ®
02/13/2002, 18:40:07
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well now Eric, you certainly told me thing or two eh? I better be gettin me some thinkin lessons.
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It seems like you're aiming at a lot of targets... Re: Protest the brain washed in & out of Temple Sqaure -- Jonathan Top of thread Archive
Posted by: Zoe ®
02/13/2002, 21:42:20
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with a limited number of firing opportunities (you may only get brief publicity with the competition of the games). Don't get me wrong; it's a good idea; let the controversy flow! You certainly have a right to and ought to express your point of view, but you might want to narrow your focus a bit to a theme that expresses it very succinctly, in as many short, memorable placard bytes as possible, or calls attention to one or two facets of current Mormon and fundie behavior and/or teachings that you find the most reprehensible. Attacking God or "gods of" directly probably won't get you too far, because Mormons and fundies will simply dismiss the characteristics of their god(s) that you attack in favor of "kinder, gentler" ones that they do pay lip service to, and the vast lukewarm (those who consider themselves to be religious, but are not passionately so) may be offended. Just my opinion, and I'm a liberal Christian, for whatever it's worth to you.
Good luck!
Zoe
Modified by Zoe at Wed, Feb 13, 2002, 21:45:54
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Re: Protest the brain washed ... Re: Protest the brain washed in & out of Temple Sqaure -- Jonathan Top of thread Archive
Posted by: Martin ®
02/14/2002, 02:42:22
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Hello, Jonathan! I must regretfully tell you that, as a soft atheist and agnostic, I am of two minds regarding your post and your mission.
On the one hand, such passion and determination are generally to be commended. Our society is really far too stagnant and could really benefit from hearing more anti-religious voices.
On the other hand, however, as someone correctly suggests in my view (and I seldom agree with that poster), you don't seem to have done nearly enough homework. Passion and determination are potentially great, but undisciplined passion and poorly directed determination are of little value to anyone, and in fact often damage the integrity of the cause itself.
My advice is to take some time and carefully prepare your Ninety-Five Theses before nailing them on the Temple doors...
Best of luck, though!
- Martin
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Re: Protest Re: Protest the brain washed in & out of Temple Sqaure -- Jonathan Top of thread Archive
Posted by: grendel ®
02/14/2002, 10:03:39
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jonathan- if you are attempting to organize a meeting to protest the "hostile" God of conservatives, perhaps you would do well to not sound so hostile yourself.
at one point in your post, you claim "God is Santa Claus for adults", but later announce you have an appreciation for liberal religious ideology. your message seems ambiguous. perhaps you could consider not openly mocking the faith of those you claim to have some respect for.
i am a liberal christian, and am often odds with conservative doctrine and ideology. indeed, i am confident there are many theological issues we would agree on. however, i find this event you are organizing (as well as the tone with which you describe it) quite unappealing. seems more like a circus than a forum for honest intellectual/philosophical endeavors.
grendel
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Re: Protest the brain out of Temple Sqaure Re: Protest the brain washed in & out of Temple Sqaure -- Jonathan Top of thread Archive
Posted by: chad ®
02/14/2002, 22:52:18
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I can only guess what you think the results of such an endeavor would be. I agree with someone (who with Martin, I seldom find common ground). It seems that this is more an attempt at publicity for yourself than an actual well planned assault. As it stands, it smacks of adolescent attempts at attention-getting. If this is something you feel like you just have to do, put a little more thought into it and make it appear "professional." I would question the effectiveness of your choice of location as well. If you think that your plan would be something other than a waste of time, I would invite you to go to the Vatican and preach protestantism. Or perhaps take Karyn with you to Isreal and convert the Jews to Christianity. Some things are worth fighting for, and some are lost causes. Do you think they'll throw down their Temple Recommends and run through the streets crying foul? You will be dismissed as a hysterical looney, like the legitimate looneys before you. Don't think I wish to bum you out dude, just hit the drawing board one more time before you go to Wal-Mart and by all that posterboard.
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