Experimenting with Non-Violence
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Posted by: james ® 03/17/2003, 16:06:56 Author Profile Mail author

I recently watched a video about Ahimsa.(dynamic non-violence)In this video a Jain sage said something like: "...while the west is experimenting with Violence, we are experimenting with Non-violence...". The Jain have schools dedicated to understanding and creating greater levels of peace, and relieving suffering. Including psyco-analyzing thousands of shades of violence. Including the violence of words, gestures and states of mind. War and atomic bombs are the grossest forms of violence. I wish that there was such a thing as a 'peace bomb'. When it goes off, the world becomes a better place, more plants/animals grow, and contentions lower, people become more pleasant. In a sense, we can create it by the things we do, and things we don't do. The jains must be the most sensitive people in the world. They have created the exact opposite of a fly swatter. I don't know what it is called, but is a sort of brush. When a fly lands on them, they gently brush it off, or they use it to sweep the ground in front of them. (During the rainy season in India the ground is covered with life). Using pesticides is violence against insects or other undesired life forms in farming or gardening. People have even developed pesticides against other humans. Usually its used in war and people don't think of them as being pesticides, but that is what they are. Jain monks very, very rarely travel by means other than walking. They don't want to risk killing things by driving, or flying. If you think this is impractical, take a closer look at the current situation with Iraq. I attended several war protests, many people had signs saying 'no blood for oil'. If you really believe it, do what you can to reduce the need for oil. I do not own a vehicle, I walk and use public transportation. Life CAN go on with out the automobile. The public has bought the idea that the auto is essential for life...its not. People have gone for thousands of years without it. The current climate in many cultures supports the auto for some reason, and we have become increasingly AND ARTIFICIALLY dependent upon it. This isn't sustainable and its causing much conflict in the world, and environmental damage.

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Re: Experimenting with Non-Violence
Re: Experimenting with Non-Violence -- james		Top of thread	Archive

Posted by: grendel ® 03/18/2003, 01:28:15 Author Profile Mail author

that's great that you don't own an automobile. that's great that jain monks don't travel by car or by plane. i travel by car and plane a lot. i didn't own a car last year, but i do this year. my life is much better now. suits me just fine. just because humans lived for thousands of years without an automobile does not mean it's not an improvement. humans also lived for thousands of years without air conditioning and the internet. i wouldn't give those up.

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Re: Experimenting with Non-Violence
Re: Experimenting with Non-Violence -- james		Top of thread	Archive

Posted by: Chad ® 03/18/2003, 20:57:27 Author Profile Mail author

Whilst giving you points for the remarks at the very end of your post, I must subtract so many for the blither that preceeds it, that you come up with a score of far less than nil. Far more things other than the automobile are used by an increasingly lazy public to "enrich" their lives. But the notion that we should all carry brooms and what not to sweep away the innocent little creatures bumbling about below as we walk about is simply ludicrous. I wish that I could travel back to the moment when the original village imbecile came up with the notion that death was a bad thing. It is, in fact, not bad but rather a beneficial thing. As is killing. Each of those bugs those addled monks so graciously displace from their path kills randomly and without thought at a near constant rate. It is called survival! The idea that we as humans are somehow above this behavior simply because we are more highly evolved intellectually is bunk. If that were the case, there would be no internet porn business. Man, as is the case with all of the animal kingdom, is driven by his baser instincts and urges. Such has always been the case, and I daresay it shall continue, lest we cease to be competitive as a species. Should we become as your monks, I fear we shall have microscopes strapped to our foreheads so as not to disturb any amoebas as we amble ...

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Reasonable limits of himsa
Re: Re: Experimenting with Non-Violence -- Chad		Top of thread	Archive

Posted by: james ® 03/24/2003, 15:35:15 Author Profile Mail author

Yes, Complete Ahimsa is IMPOSSIBLE to achieve. Ones own immune system is constantly killing incoming bacteria, molds, yeasts and other microbes. What a person has to decide is on what level one is going to practice non-violence, and non-taking from other people or other forms of life. Murder, and rape of humans are on the top of the list of crimes that people commit. They are both TAKING of something from another person. Taking a life, and the taking of sexual favor without permission. I consider excessive, unnecessary environmental damage as crime. Once cannot totally eliminate environmental damage, but one CAN place substantial limits on that. Curbing the use of the automobile is one really good way. I certainly don't expect anyone to adopt the lifestyle of a Jain monk, I just included that as an illustration of HOW FAR one can take non-violence. Certainly feel free to eloborate upon what you feel is a more reasonable ideal for the American public and the western world. Are you willing to think about it, or do you feel you aren't responible for anything, if you happen to kill microbes everyday?

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Chad is right.
Re: Experimenting with Non-Violence -- james		Top of thread	Archive

Posted by: Gunnar ® 03/23/2003, 20:13:11 Author Profile Mail author

Death is as important to maintaining a healthy ecological balance as new birth. Death, per se, is not intrinsically evil. It is an unavoidable necessity for the continuation of the cycle of life. Still, you are right that we tend to depend far too much on privately owned vehicles for our transportation needs. Part of the reason for this is that major automobile manufacturers early in the twentieth century systematically bought up and dismantled many efficient public transportation systems in order to create a dependence on private automobiles and a much larger market for their products. Gunnar

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