Posted by: ramona ®
03/03/2003, 16:14:02
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It might also be noted that the news is suggesting that Pearl Harbour was on the plan of attack. Do you think a little truth serum was added to assist in obtaining of information? You may also note that while he has been captured and is in American hands, he is not on American soil. I find that terribly interesting.
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Posted by: Fer-de-lance ®
03/03/2003, 16:24:29
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"Do you think a little truth serum was added to assist in obtaining of information?"I personally hope they make life more painful then that for him.
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Posted by: ramona ®
03/03/2003, 16:43:05
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Fer,They put the needle in his arm sans the alcohol swab and poked really, really hard. Any better?
Ramona
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Posted by: Fer-de-lance ®
03/03/2003, 18:06:57
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hmmm..i was kind of hoping for maybe an accidental poke in the eye or something
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Posted by: JAK ®
03/03/2003, 18:31:26
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The real issue is how do the interrogators get accurate information from Khalid Shaikh Mohammed.There is no question that the United States government wants to know everything it can possibly discover from this 38 year-old man. And he knows a great deal. They cannot get information from a dead man or even a severely injured man. Or what they would get would be unreliable. It may be unreliable in any case, but dead terrorists don’t talk. JAK
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Posted by: Fer-de-lance ®
03/03/2003, 23:47:30
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I don't think we should let mere information interfere with good torture. This man needs to feel our wrath.
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Posted by: ramona ®
03/04/2003, 08:11:40
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This is a religious forum!! That means that we do not seek revenge, but that the Christian God of America has commanded us to show reproach to this man that is religiously errant. Sheesh.I must side with Aaron on this one. I think his testicles must be huge to have planned attack and murder as he has done. Yup, I think a sledgehammer to the testicles would be a good start. That way, he is too injured as to not speak per JAK. Ramona
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Posted by: JAK ®
03/04/2003, 10:34:21
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Fer-de-lance,It is understandable that you may feel this way and than many Americans will join with you in that sentiment. However, the WTC and Pentagon attacks were far more devastating to this country than primitive torture would have benefit. I reiterate, it is most important for the U.S. government to find out all it can from Khalid Shaikh Mohammed making every effort to prevent any plans he may have laid which could have been orchestrated by him. How many more lives would this man’s life be worth? That is, by torturing him or killing him -- anything which would make what is in his mind useless to the United States would be a disservice to the people who were victimized by him in the 9-11 attacks and all the on-going aftermath. Hence, I disagree that torture for purpose of torture alone or killing for death alone would serve the American people, and indeed, all the people of the world poorly. One reason for keeping Khalid Shaikh Mohammed out of the U.S. is to protect him from a would-be killer of him. However, another and more important purpose is this: Our government interrogators do not have to treat him as well outside the U.S. as they would be required to do inside the U.S. They want him to talk, and they want that “talk” to be useful to the U.S. in protecting the country from another such attack as he is believed to have masterminded. There is little doubt that every means to make him talk which is known to U.S. intelligence will be used. But the U.S. government does not want him dead until all possible relevant information has been extracted from his mind. Again, I understand your desire to torture. Revenge is a normal human emotion. But I would favor the route which I am confident the U.S. government is taking to further protect the United States or any other country from the kind of thing which happened on September 11, 2001. JAK
Modified by JAK at Tue, Mar 04, 2003, 10:35:35
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Posted by: Fer-de-lance ®
03/04/2003, 15:32:22
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I wonder if the american people really have anything to gain from this man's psychotic babbling. I think rather, this enemy of the human race should be tortured while gagged. I would hate for even the torturers to be subjected to his poisonous words.
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Posted by: Fer-de-lance ®
03/04/2003, 18:43:34
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, is it a lie or uninhibited talk? I don't know, but hopefully they will gag him so we never know one way or another ; )
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Posted by: Another Bob ®
03/04/2003, 21:45:27
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FerI've this funny feeling you knew someone in the WTC Fer, torture is all good fun, but you're just blood-thirsty.Trust me, it's no fun if you cannot hear their screams. On the other hand, there's always the infamous bamboo torture... Fun for the WHOLE family.
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Posted by: Gunnar ®
03/08/2003, 16:18:47
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I'm sure it is true that sodium pentathol and other truth inducing drugs have their limitations, and do not necessarily guarantee the one being interrogated is telling the truth about everything. As you probably realize, torture also has limitations. I think that torture is probably a very effective way to get the torture victim to say whatever the interrogators are ready to believe, but if he states a truth that the interrogators do not believe, and is tortured for doing so, he will just as quickly change his story to whatever lie that they will believe.Gunnar
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Posted by: ramona ®
03/08/2003, 18:48:04
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I agree. Look at our history in the criminal justice system. How many "guilty" people admitted their guilt, to find 20+ years later that the D.N.A. evidence exonerates them? I'll say whatever you want me to say, just stop beating me. Ramona
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Posted by: JAK ®
03/08/2003, 21:53:01
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I have doubt that Khalid Shaikh Mohammed will be treated in such a way that false information will be accepted by the interrogators. It is not in the interest of the U.S. to elicit false material.
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Posted by: Gunnar ®
03/09/2003, 01:34:01
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I think you may have missed my point. I don't believe for a minute that the interrogators intend to elicit false material from Khalid Shaikh Mohammed. I am merely suggesting that if he tells a truth that the interrogators are, for some reason, unprepared or unwilling to believe, he may, under duress, change his story in a desperate attempt to come up with something they will believe, true or not. If he is subjected to enough torture, it could happen that he will reach a state of mind in which he is no longer sure himself what the actual truth is. Presumably the interrogators will try their best to verify what he tells them to insure that they are not misled by their own biases of what the truth is likely to be, but mistakes are possible.Gunnar
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Posted by: JAK ®
03/04/2003, 17:16:02
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Fer-de-lance states:
“I wonder if the american people really have anything to gain from this man's psychotic babbling. I think rather, this enemy of the human race should be tortured while gagged. I would hate for even the torturers to be subjected to his poisonous words.”JAK:
The answer to your “wonder” is yes, the American people do have something to gain from U.S. government interrogation. There is nothing to be gained by way of further protection for Americans by simply execution. That would be a net negative. It would make him a martyr in the eyes of all those who have followed his directives...and we have no idea how many that may be just now.As for kindness in getting him to “talk,” there will be none. Most techniques in getting people to “talk” who don’t want to talk are relatively simple. Drugs sometimes work. One which I heard today is putting someone like that in a room closed to all outside indicators of day, time, climate. A room without any outside light, a temperature of 40 degrees, a humidity of near 100% and sounds (dripping water, storms, catastrophe) intermittently delivered to the “room.” There would be absolutely no light in the room -- dark as a cave. Placing persons in this kind of environment for days, weeks with no contact with the outside what-so-ever, no sense of time (day, night), intermittent access to nutrition at entirely unpredictable times, and nutrition which has foul taste --this kind of environment demoralizes. None of us can possibly imagine what such an environment would do to us. The U.S. military intelligence knows. The U.S. government wants him to talk, Fer-de-lance. Then and only after they get all they want do they want him dead. And maybe they do not want that for concerns that he become that martyr. JAK
Modified by JAK at Tue, Mar 04, 2003, 17:18:12
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Posted by: Fer-de-lance ®
03/04/2003, 18:58:51
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"There is nothing to be gained by way of further protection for Americans by simply execution." Execution would be the worst thing they could do, there isn't any pain in death. We want the torture to last for possibly years. "It would make him a martyr" they would record his cries and distribute the tape to his followers so they can understand what a wimp he really is. "One which I heard today is putting someone like that in a room closed to all outside indicators of day, time, climate." Kind of like a Casino? You know, some people consider that paradise. "None of us can possibly imagine what such an environment would do to us." Apparently it makes us want to gamble. "The U.S. government wants him to talk, Fer-de-lance." And that's unfortunate. He should be gagged and beaten. His screams will be loud enough to penetrate the gag without risking the possibility of contaminating the minds of the interogators with his filth.
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Posted by: Another Bob ®
03/04/2003, 21:38:55
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Y'know, sometimes you can be such a wet blanket JAK.I'll have you know torture is a fun past-time and most people must enjoy it to some degree. Case in point, MTV.Some truly twisted cunt must have thought up Avril Lavigne though.
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Posted by: Bahman ®
03/03/2003, 17:07:08
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"You may also note that while he has been captured and is in American hands, he is not on American soil. I find that terribly interesting."Why? It may take a long time for him to land here, if ever. In general, we can speculate and theorize on all the details. The basic issue is nevertheless the fact of his capture. Osama may be next. PS: See you all a bit later.
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Posted by: ramona ®
03/03/2003, 17:26:08
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I find it interesting because the rules are not the same on non-american soil.Ramona
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Posted by: ramona ®
03/03/2003, 17:28:41
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Got truth serum?R http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=514&ncid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20030303/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/terror_chief_36
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Posted by: JAK ®
03/03/2003, 18:02:06
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Interigation of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed is important to the U.S. An “undisclosed location” could assure much more safety for Mohammed than anywhere in the U.S. The last thing the official U.S. government wants is for someone to kill Mohammed. They couldn’t find out anything from a dead man. JAK
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