Heavenly Mother
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Posted by: nat ® 12/13/2002, 12:21:02 Author Profile Mail author

Why don't LDS pray to Heavenly Mother? In many religions there are many gods and different kinds of gods. Many believe in a mother type god or goddess of some sort. Traditional christianity is void of any mother type god. However in the Nag Hammadi there is referance as the Holy Spirit as a female part of the trinity. As well, Catholics believe in Mary to be the "Mother of God" thus, employing that Mary would be some sort of god. The LDS faith does profess that there is at least one Heavenly Mother, a few people suggest there may be more then one Heavenly Mother. However, I often wondered, assuming the LDS faith is correct and there is a "Heavenly Mother"-- Why doesn't the church have any prayers or worship there Heavenly Mother(s). The Catholic church has worship for Mary and other religions for goddess' and such. Everyone else who believes in a mother god does it, why not LDS? The LDS faith has a name for God (Elohim), but not one for Heavenly Mother. Isn't she special enough to have a name? The church usally doesn't talk about Heavenly Mother often, but will admit she exists. But no talks are centered on her or really gives thanks to her. Isn't Heavenly Mother just as important as Heavenly Father. Doesn't Heavenly Mother deserve reconision? After all, according to the LDS philophsy when a man and a woman are sealed in the temple and live righteously and do all they can do they can enter the Celestrial Kingdom and there prepair to become gods and have spirit childern to populate a planet or two. So, god once was like man had a wife and they both became gods. And those gods created us. Which is really important. No Father no us, no mother, no us. Wouldn't Heavenly Mother be just as important for helping creat us? Why would only Heavenly Father only get the praise and glory? Don't women count? So why would Heavenly Father be more special and more important then Heavenly Mother? According to LDS philophy, a Heavenly Mother would be very imporant so that our spirits could be created. With out Heavenly Mother, we wouldn't be here. So why don't LDS pray to them equaly. Ie, "Dear Heavenly Father and Mother...." Wouldn't that make sence? Why, if there was a Heavenly Mother she would just be as important as a creater as Heavenly Father, correct? And Jesus is important because he saved everyone. But if there was no mother, then there would be no us, so then there would be no Jesus. So, then wouldn't Heavenly Mother deserve something special too...why is it that someone who would be so seemingly important as to our very existance be so 2nd class...we don't have a name for her, we don't pray to her, we don't thank her for anything...we usally don't even think of her often. Other religions think of Heavenly Mother, they say prayers and do dances and stuff like that. But why in the LDS faith would Heavenly Mother not be just as imporant? And, frankly, if I were a LDS woman and this is what I had to look forward to when I became a god in the celestrial kingdom. Doing so much, being a part of everything just as equally...I would be peved that I never got a thanks for all that work, and no one really seemed to care that much about my controbution to the creation process. Why would any one even treat there mother like that? what about there wife? Aren't women just as imporant, aren't mothers worth enough? And a Heavenly Mother would be the most imporant mom of all...and yet it seems no one really considers her that often. I think it sounds unfair. --nat

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Re: Heavenly Mother
Re: Heavenly Mother -- nat		Top of thread	Archive

Posted by: Fer-de-lance ® 12/13/2002, 16:19:14 Author Profile Mail author

Your putting a whole lot of work into your button pushing arn't you? I mean, your just Fukin with us right?

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????????
Re: Re: Heavenly Mother -- Fer-de-lance		Top of thread	Archive

Posted by: The Vines ® 12/13/2002, 18:25:44 Author Profile Mail author

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Re: ????????
Re: ???????? -- The Vines		Top of thread	Archive

Posted by: Fer-de-lance ® 12/14/2002, 00:22:40 Author Profile Mail author

V, check out our exchange in his baptism for the dead thread. Not that it's a big deal or anything.

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Re: Heavenly Mother
Re: Heavenly Mother -- nat		Top of thread	Archive

Posted by: Jrmh ® 12/13/2002, 22:25:40 Author Profile Mail author

This is a very interesting topic. As a former Mormon, I for one am interested to see where this will be going. Even though there are not many active LDS here, those people can ask around for the answers. Standing by with baited breath. God bless, J

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Equality/theology
Re: Heavenly Mother -- nat		Top of thread	Archive

Posted by: james ® 12/14/2002, 09:29:14 Author Profile Mail author

Nat, Who ever said that women had equal footing in the LDS faith? Supernatural women wouldn't be any different. Its a religion that centers around patriarchy, apple pie, capitalism, the american way, the good old boy system, anglo Supremacy. That is at least one way to look at this idea. The other is that maybe it doesn't fit into theology very well. I don't believe there is any evidence in the Bible for a heavenly mother. Female deities generally are considered pagan in the Bible, and therefore bad. Not that Mormons have anything against Extra-biblical doctrines or concepts> however I think they keep this one rather hushed because its to revealing as to the shortcomings of LDS theology. "....Astarte, the female deity. She is known in the Bible as the "queen of heaven" (Jeremiah 7:18; 44:17-25). She is the mother of Tammuz (Ezekiel 8:14) who was also her husband." http://www.av1611.org/kjv/easter.html If there was a positive statement about Female deities, that would be interesting to hear about. Modified by james at Sat, Dec 14, 2002, 09:31:44

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Catholics
Re: Heavenly Mother -- nat		Top of thread	Archive

Posted by: Nik ® 12/16/2002, 02:21:53 Author Profile Mail author

"As well, Catholics believe in Mary to be the "Mother of God" thus, employing that Mary would be some sort of god." Having spoken to a very stubborn Catholic about this, she is adamant that Catholics do not worship Mary. After scanning through the dictionary, and some prayers, I can only come to the conclusion that Catholics DO worship Mary. I don't know what the fuss is all about, saying they don't worship Mary. They worship saints too. What is there to be lost by admitting they worship Mary? Ah but of course, that would be admitting that they are wrong, and that is something the Catholic church can never bear to do (see Galileo trial for more details).

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Re: Catholics
Re: Catholics -- Nik		Top of thread	Archive

Posted by: Ramona ® 12/16/2002, 02:35:57 Author Profile Mail author

There is a difference between worship and veneration. Perhaps you may want to look that one up. Ramona

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Re: Catholics
Re: Re: Catholics -- Ramona		Top of thread	Archive

Posted by: Nik ® 12/16/2002, 02:53:54 Author Profile Mail author

Veneration- respecting someone highly. Worship- 1: The practice or practices of praising or praying to a god or goddess, 2: Religious rites and ceremonies, 3: A strong feeling of admiration and respect for someone. Now tell me, where's the difference between veneration and definition 3 of worship? They aren't different, they are merely synonyms of each other! The fact remains: Catholics worship Mary but refuse to acknowledge it.

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Re: Catholics
Re: Re: Catholics -- Nik		Top of thread	Archive

Posted by: Ramona ® 12/16/2002, 05:30:17 Author Profile Mail author

Worship - A title of honor used in addressing magistrates and certain others holding high rank. Veneration - The act of showing a feeling of deep respect, awe, and reverance. You see Nik, It's all about using the correct definition and usage. Catholics historically Venerate Mary using the above definition. And Catholics worship the Trinity, using the standard definition of worship. I will grant that there are subcults that perhaps do Worship Mary in a Co-redemtress fashion. But, this in not the norm. You may want to explore a couple of sites for further understanding. http://www.americancatholic.org/Features/customs/rosary/mary_worship.asp http://www.netacc.net/~mafg/que4028.htm http://www.cnetwork.co.uk/catholic19.html Ramona Related link: http://www.americancatholic.org/Features/customs/rosary/mary_worship.asp; http://www.netacc.net/~mafg/que4028.htm ;http://www.cnetwork.co.uk/catholic19.html

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Definitions
Re: Re: Catholics -- Ramona		Top of thread	Archive

Posted by: Nik ® 12/17/2002, 02:09:21 Author Profile Mail author

You're right, the definition does matter. But if you took into account all the definitions, then you would arrive at one conclusion: they both worship, AND venerate Mary. AT the very least they venerate her, and at the most they worship her.

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The problem
Re: Definitions -- Nik		Top of thread	Archive

Posted by: Ramona ® 12/17/2002, 04:02:32 Author Profile Mail author

Nik, The problem is that in most cases, Mary is not worshipped, she is venerated-my definition. In the Hail Mary, "Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners..." If Mary were deified, Catholics would not ask her for prayer, but forgiveness. The "act of contrition" tells God and God alone, "O my God, I am hearily sorry for having offended Thee..." Now, if you question Transubstantiation or the Trinity, I will undoubtedly agree that it is unquestionably one of many churches with pagan teachings. Ramona

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Like I said, never argue about Catholicism!
Re: The problem -- Ramona		Top of thread	Archive

Posted by: Nik ® 12/18/2002, 01:50:18 Author Profile Mail author

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But
Re: Like I said, never argue about Catholicism! -- Nik		Top of thread	Archive

Posted by: Ramona ® 12/18/2002, 04:43:32 Author Profile Mail author

It's not exclusive to Catholicism. Ramona

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See what I mean?
Re: But -- Ramona		Top of thread	Archive

Posted by: Nik ® 12/18/2002, 04:54:41 Author Profile Mail author

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Re: See what I mean?
Re: See what I mean? -- Nik		Top of thread	Archive

Posted by: Ramona ® 12/18/2002, 06:04:29 Author Profile Mail author

No, not quite sure. Dish it to me. Ramona

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Re: See what I mean?
Re: Re: See what I mean? -- Ramona		Top of thread	Archive

Posted by: Nik ® 12/19/2002, 03:52:30 Author Profile Mail author

It was a hint that I was bored with the same argument I've had many times before. Evidently not a good one.

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