| A question to Christians |  |  | |
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Posted by: Eric ® 01/22/2002, 01:07:05 Author Profile Mail author |
How can you believe that such a religion can be true? One can argue that a religion can be judged by those who follow it. You may argue that humans ar enot perfect, nor can we attempt to be like God; but the fact is that the books in the Bible were written by imperfect men who, if they cannot achieve God's perfection, wrote their books imperfectly to being with. And that is just one problem. As far as I know, the Bible wasn't completely organized as we know it today until centuries after Christianity came about. How can we know that the books chosen were true? The New Testament books were written decades after Christ's death, yet speak as though they were witnesses of his life (I'm not sure if they quote him directly or not). On a funny note: An argument I got from a kid a year or so younger than me said, "Those people back then lived a long time, look at Noah." Now, for another interesting thought. How can a true religion be one that can be interpretted so many different ways? There's so many "ian" and "ists" and who knows what denominiations out there. What interpretations is right? Let us take a look at the puritans. These people hanged (or is it hung?) homosexuals in New England colonies. Spread the love! Christianity spread to the Native Americans because guns were pointed at their heads, diseases were killing off more than half their population, some were being taken as slaves, and who knows what else? If you were ignorant about germs, what would you believe when men immune to small pox (after generations of EVOLUTION) tells you that you're dying because you don't believe? The Catholic Church controlled people for centuries as well. The literacy rate was very low before the 1600's. Interpretation of the Bible was left to the Catholic heirarchy. Aparrantly Monarchies' power was iven to them by God, and so people had to obey them. Speaking of the Catholic Church, this is a church that once had its own army, but preached peace and love. Sounds good to me, I'm joining! The worst part is this: After the September 11th attacks, many ignorant and jus tplain stupid Christians have critcisized Islam for them. Islam, just like Christianity, preaches peace and love, yet BOTH spread through war (remember the Roman Empire adopting it?). Can anyone explain how such a true religion has been abused, misinterpretted (or over interpretted, exploited, etc.? I can't begin to understand how one whose knowledge of its history can just keep on believing like there's nothing that ever went wrong.
P.S. Praise the Lord! For he can walk on water, but cannot survive crusifiction. |
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Re: A question to Christians Re: A question to Christians -- Eric Top of thread Archive
Posted by: mikwut ®
01/22/2002, 11:39:40
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As per many atheistic "quibbles" with religion your rather "McCabean" post requires a novel to accurately reply to. I will make one quick comment, if you interpose "people" for "religion" your beginning to better accurately describe why. mikwut
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Re: A question to Christians Re: Re: A question to Christians -- mikwut Top of thread Archive
Posted by: Eric ®
01/22/2002, 19:55:07
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I believe I did so, mikwut. In my opinion, call it rong if you wish, a religion which claism to be the only true one would not have such a bad history of its believers. The religion would not be interprette dhundreds of ways, and it would not just re-write history.
Am I wrong for judging a religion based upon the people who follow it? If no one followe dit, it would not exist.
Eric
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Re: A question to Christians Re: Re: A question to Christians -- Eric Top of thread Archive
Posted by: mikwut ®
01/22/2002, 20:05:38
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"Am I wrong for judging a religion based upon the people who follow it? If no one followe dit, it would not exist." Not at all but your choosing certain preconceived people to follow, your opinion is "Attitudinal" it is not factual, historical or reality, it is one sided and biased, it is naive. have read from other posts your age and so on a more complimentary note it is mature beyond your years to question in the way you are and I would encourage you to continue to question and even question the questions, I have much respect for that in you. I can only say in years to come to develope a sense of deep and profound complexity, a sense of irony and add it to your critical thoughts and questions.
regards,
mikwut
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Just a side note Re: Re: A question to Christians -- mikwut Top of thread Archive
Posted by: Eric ®
01/22/2002, 23:47:18
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Thank you, mikwut. My posts regarding religion are always to try ot get people to see what I think may have been overlooked. Believe me, my thought processes go way deeper than this, an to put them into words would be impossible.
I thank you for the encouragement and support, despite however rude I may come off at times.
Eric
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People Nulify the idea? Re: Re: A question to Christians -- Eric Top of thread Archive
Posted by: Waspinatrix ®
01/23/2002, 11:11:33
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Eric:
In my opinion, call it rong if you wish, a religion which claism to be the only true one would not have such a bad history of its believers. The religion would not be interprette dhundreds of ways, and it would not just re-write history.Me:
That reasoning flushes every religion, government, and culture down the proverbial tubes. That gives the over quoted line 'see you in hell' a whole new meaning.Eric:
Am I wrong for judging a religion based upon the people who follow it? If no one followe dit, it would not exist.Me:
You're not wrong. You just need to be willing to accept the consequences. If you want to follow a path, follow it, even if it leads you to where you don't want to go. Absolutism sucks absoluely (IMNSHO). What is good for the gander is good for the goose, neh?
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Re: A question to Christians Re: A question to Christians -- Eric Top of thread Archive
Posted by: Waspinatrix ®
01/22/2002, 11:43:12
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Howdi Eric Eric:
How can you believe that such a religion can be true?Me:
How can you ask that? Why does anyone believe anything is true?Eric:
One can argue that a religion can be judged by those who follow it.Me:
True. But such a requirement would, by its very nature demand that you know *all* who profess to follow said creed, lest you bias yourself into a poor judgement (either way).Eric:
You may argue that humans are not perfect, nor can we attempt to be like God;Me:
Some of the points of the bible actually cover that... We're asked, told, yelled at to be perfect; but it's also accepted that for all our striving we can and usually do fall short of the goal. This is where the argument for the need of a savior comes in...Eric:
but the fact is that the books in the Bible were written by imperfect men who, if they cannot achieve God's perfection, wrote their books imperfectly to being with. And that is just one problem.Me:
Not necessarily.. Being human is to be falible, prone to error. The only 'perfect' being in the whole of the bible was Jesus. And even he had his share of woes to sing, if he had choosen. IMNSHO I think the bible (and the Gosple) isn't to 'rub our noses into the fact that we aren't perfect'. Nor do the people in the bible (with the Jesus exception) ever claimed to be perfect of themselves (and even Jesus was quoted to say that 'of his own self, he could do *nothing*'). As to the book itself... Being a history (through the eyes of a myopic, monothiestic, stiffnecked viewpoint brought about by hundreds of editor over thousands of years) of (IMNSHO) billions of years, and granded that humans are, well, human...Eric:
As far as I know, the Bible wasn't completely organized as we know it today until centuries after Christianity came about. How can we know that the books chosen were true?Me:
You don't have to treat them as 'true' if it makes you feel better. My sister believes that the scriptures, like any other media is a medium through which God can 'speak to you in the present (specifically to you).'Eric:
The New Testament books were written decades after Christ's death, yet speak as though they were witnesses of his life (I'm not sure if they quote him directly or not). On a funny note: An argument I got from a kid a year or so younger than me said, "Those people back then lived a long time, look at Noah."Me:
The OT was written well before Jesus' time too, yet (suppossedly) the Prophets (specifiaclly Isaiah) knew him too...
And as far as the NT goes, it's plausible that the recounting was true, as far as memory is accurate... It makes a lot more sense to have old farts sitting together on the poarch rockers telling each-other 'remeber the day when...' than it is to find gold plates with the hebrew language written in egyptian script... But a lot of people find a lot of faith in the BoM. Why should Christians as a whole have less faith in a book the (appearantly) has a much more rational origin like the Bible?Me:
As to Noah.. Yeah, he lived a long time. It seems to have been a common trait before said flood. Last I heard from the scientific community Humans certainly don't live as long as they ought to (genetically speaking). I believe Humans should have an average lifespan of about 600 years.Eric:
Now, for another interesting thought. How can a true religion be one that can be interpretted so many different ways?Me:
This question is dependent on how abolute truth is. Is truth the foundation of reality? or reality the foundation of truth? Or is truth relative? Whilst it is a truth, a fact of life for me that I'll have to sit to tinkle, (that is if I don't want to soil myself,) that may (and is probably not) the truth for you.
And yet both truths are valid...Eric:
There's so many "ian" and "ists" and who knows what denominiations out there. What interpretations is right?Me:
The interpertaion that gives you that warm fuzzy ah-ha it makes sense moment feeling...Eric:
Let us take a look at the puritans.Me:
Okay. Specific examples are funEric:
These people hanged (or is it hung?) homosexuals in New England colonies. Spread the love!Me:
Ah, but the Puritans were all about sexual guilt... And just a point of commentary... While the Puritans weren't accepting of something that was scarry oand different to their norm... The Jews weren't exactly nice to homosexuals either... And, if I were gay and punished for it.. I'd rather be hung by Puritans than stoned by Jews...Eric:
Christianity spread to the Native Americans because guns were pointed at their heads, diseases were killing off more than half their population, some were being taken as slaves, and who knows what else?Me:
I don't know of one religion that didn't try to supress or kill, or convert other religions. The Shintoists persicuited Japanese Christians for over 200 years and drove their survivors deep underground. Muslims and Christians antagonized each other for hundreds of years. Jews commited genicide in the OT. And Humanists suppressed/force converted all other religions under the guise of Cummunism...Eric:
If you were ignorant about germs, what would you believe when men immune to small pox (after generations of EVOLUTION) tells you that you're dying because you don't believe?Me:
That argument could be reversed too... You might also believe that these white people were evil spirits out to kill you, disease didn't attack your people until the white man came...Eric:
The Catholic Church controlled people for centuries as well. The literacy rate was very low before the 1600's.Me:
One has to take in to consideration that women were culturally considered nothing, and property, and brood mares.. That's 1/2 of your lack of literacy rate right there. And It wasn't the christians that started the idea (per se) of gender supression, they just brought it into the relm of the spirit. As to the majority of men... Most men were 'property' too, peasants. It was the nobles who kept them down in secular matters... And as for the nobles... few of them saw a need to learn how to read for the longest time. Now, I'm not saying that the Chatholic church is inocent, I'm just saying that they don't necessarily carry the brunt of blame either when it comes to education.Eric:
Interpretation of the Bible was left to the Catholic heirarchy.
Aparrantly Monarchies' power was given to them by God, and so people had to obey them.Me:
Yeah. A political move. Then again, religion has for the most part played a role in politics. It's only in our recent history that there has been an effort to seperate church and state, though there has also been some backwards trends too...Eric:
Speaking of the Catholic Church, this is a church that once had its own army, but preached peace and love. Sounds good to me, I'm joining! The worst part is this: After the September 11th attacks, many ignorant and just plain stupid Christians have critcisized Islam for them. Islam, just like Christianity, preaches peace and love, yet BOTH spread through war (remember the Roman Empire adopting it?).Me:
So a theocracy had an army. Wasn't the first time, or the last. Of the time you are speaking, is not fair to say that Islam had an army too? Weren't they putting it to good use gaining followers at sword point too? Again, I put it too you, is any religion, Humanism included, inocent of intollerance and bloodshed. Humans for the most part are good, and want to be better. It's those few that climb to and abuse power that makes it so difficult to see the goodness within...Eric:
Can anyone explain how such a true religion has been abused, misinterpretted (or over interpretted, exploited, etc.?Me:
Yeah, I think I can... In one word too... "Humans"Eric:
I can't begin to understand how one whose knowledge of its history can just keep on believing like there's nothing that ever went wrong.Me:
If you know your past you can learn not to repeat it. God (IMNSHO) isn't about taunting the imperfect. Or forever punishing the weak or bad choices we've made (look at Jesus and David...). It's about striving to be your best, and forgiving yourself/other when you fail, and getting back up to try again...Eric:
P.S. Praise the Lord! For he can walk on water, but cannot survive crusifiction.Me:
Couldn't or wouldn't? Have you actually read said accounts?
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I don't have time for this Re: Re: A question to Christians -- Waspinatrix Top of thread Archive
Posted by: Eric ®
01/22/2002, 20:07:12
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After reading "How can you ask that? Why does anyone believe anything is true?" and a fe wmro elines I decided you "logic" wasn't worth my limited time. Once you get beyond arguing solipsism, let me know, I'll be happy to debate then.
Actually, just a few more lines that made me laugh.
You: "True. But such a requirement would, by its very nature demand that you know *all* who profess to follow said creed, lest you bias yourself into a poor judgement (either way)."
Incorrect. I know good Christians, and I know bad Christians. I was stating that those who are able to do the acts in the examples I stated show how such a religion isn't true. That is my opinion.
After skimming through the rest of your replies, most of you arguments against me just furthered my points (take the Catholics who kept other Catholics from becoming literate. You are wrong anyways, literacy went up when the printing press was invented.)
Eric
P.S. The answer is "couldn't." The fact that a God, in human form, who could walk on water and perform mircales would only want to spend 33 years on a planet where he could spend eternity andfix problems is just absurd.
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And? Re: I don't have time for this -- Eric Top of thread Archive
Posted by: Waspinatrix ®
01/23/2002, 11:02:37
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Eric:
After reading "How can you ask that? Why does anyone believe anything is true?" and a few more lines I decided you "logic" wasn't worth my limited time.Me:
Yes. I can see that. I can see that my reply to you was sooo unworth your limited time that you not only wasted said time, but you also put plenty of said time into witty thought to reply to the reply. And your "logic" is so much more authentic than my 'logic'. You started off this whole load with the rhetorical question "How can you believe that such a religion can be true?"Your little moment of nose thumbing just thrashed your own argument... (ref: your own statement at the top.)
In your first post, you proceed to present emotionally laden, non-contextual, non-sequential 'facts' (much like the 'Mothers against Guns' 'facts', a child is shot every 8 seconds) to support your conclusion. How does the fact that I use your same method to point out the failings of other religions make my 'logic' so 'ill-logical'?
Eric:
Once you get beyond arguing solipsism, let me know, I'll be happy to debate then.Me:
You'll be happy to debate when I accept that your opinion is the only truth? And isn't the very point of truth the very core of 'your point'? Do you not think that your opinion that 'Christianity is bad' is the *truth*? All I asked was if truth was relative. If you insist that truth is absolute (I guess I'd better learn to stand to take a leak...), fine.Eric:
Actually, just a few more lines that made me laugh.Me:
I'm glad. Humor is a good thing.Dialogue from a previous post:
Eric: One can argue that a religion can be judged by those who follow it.
Me: True. But such a requirement would, by its very nature demand that you know *all* who profess to follow said creed, lest you bias yourself into a poor judgment (either way).Eric:
Incorrect. I know good Christians, and I know bad Christians. I was stating that those who are able to do the acts in the examples I stated show how such a religion isn't true. That is my opinion.Me:
Thank you for your clarification... But I still stick with my original statement. You can't judge the whole without judging the whole... Do take in to account that your stance that 'bad people invalidate the religion' is only as logical as me saying 'good people validate the same religion.'...Eric:
After skimming through the rest of your replies, most of you arguments against me just furthered my points (take the Catholics who kept other Catholics from becoming literate. You are wrong anyways, literacy went up when the printing press was invented.)Me: But you just asserted that it was the (lack of a) printing press that held the true believers down... And what I attempted to say on the illiteracy was that it was a cultural phenomena. The Catholics aren't innocent, (*AND*) neither are they to be completely blamed. In fact I don't ever remember reading about or hearing about an edict that stated not to teach a person to read on pain of excommunication/death. Even though I can recall something about the south state governments in the US threatening to punish people for teaching a black to read. Unless you can prove to me that that example is a church-influenced decision...
Eric:
P.S. The answer is "couldn't." The fact that a God, in human form, who could walk on water and perform miracles would only want to spend 33 years on a planet where he could spend eternity and fix problems is just absurd.Me:
That's a cop out IMNSHO. Would you want your parents coming to your rescue every time you lost your job, or a significant other??? I know one guy who's over 25 years of age; he's dropped out of college, will never get a job, and will never have a family (rather he wants one or not) all because his mother has rescued him and dictates what he is to do all his life. He's pathetic IMNSHO. I'd hate Jesus, and anyone else who tried to save me from myself where I could have done it myself.
What I think is absurd is people getting upset at Christians because some of us need something to lean on; and then the same critics of the religion demand 'Where is God/Christ? Why isn't he doing *something*!? I'm not saying that you said that specifically. What I am saying is that the atheists can't have their cake and eat it too with the 'rely on yourself!; but God isn't doing anything!' argument. Make your minds up people!Eric, why don't you provide for us the reason why your worldview is so positive, rather than 'wasting the time of Christians' with moral-busting innuendo. Don't inflame and fight us, persuade us with reason and the milk of human kindness... Prove to us the merits of Humanism (or whatever -ism you personally think is best to subscribe too)...
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Christians Re: A question to Christians -- Eric Top of thread Archive
Posted by: Douglas A... ®
01/22/2002, 13:38:06
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:=How can you believe that such a religion can be true?
Reply:Christ said no one can be a Christian unless the Father (YHWH) draw him. I had that experience (I felt drawn) when I was 11 years old. I choose to follow the Holy Spirit then.
One can argue that a religion can be judged by those who follow it.
Reply:Most people only profess to follow a religion. Finding someone who does is a forlorn hope. The best you can do is follow your religion as best you can rather than find someone who does it the way you expect they should.You may argue that humans ar enot perfect, nor can we attempt to be like God;
Reply: We can attenpt to. Isn't that what it is really all about? I think so. Christ commanded us, "Be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect. To do so one only has to follow Christ and keep His commandments.
but the fact is that the books in the Bible were written by imperfect men who, if they cannot achieve God's perfection, wrote their books imperfectly to being with. And that is just one problem.
Reply: There is enough substance in the Scriptures to give us a fairly good idea about what is expected of us.
As far as I know, the Bible wasn't completely organized as we know it today until centuries after Christianity came about. How can we know that the books chosen were true? The New Testament books were written decades after Christ's death, yet speak as though they were witnesses of his life (I'm not sure if they quote him directly or not). On a funny note: An argument I got from a kid a year or so younger than me said, "Those people back then lived a long time, look at Noah."
Reply: Ibid.Now, for another interesting thought. How can a true religion be one that can be interpretted so many different ways? There's so many "ian" and "ists" and who knows what denominiations out there. What interpretations is right?
Reply: To thine own self be true, rather than let someone lead you astray. It is a matter of personal integrity.
Let us take a look at the puritans. These people hanged (or is it hung?) homosexuals in New England colonies. Spread the love!
Reply: And they ate pork at the same time not to mention broke the Sabbath. IOW they were as guilty as those they condemned. Only the Almighty can judge such matters but that is also a function of Government as the human agency thru which He acts.
Christianity spread to the Native Americans because guns were pointed at their heads, diseases were killing off more than half their population, some were being taken as slaves, and who knows what else?
Reply: It is a matter of social evolution. It was acceptable to do so then.If you were ignorant about germs, what would you believe when men immune to small pox (after generations of EVOLUTION) tells you that you're dying because you don't believe?
Reply: Faith can heal.
The Catholic Church controlled people for centuries as well. The literacy rate was very low before the 1600's. Interpretation of the Bible was left to the Catholic heirarchy. Aparrantly Monarchies' power was iven to them by God, and so people had to obey them.Reply: Yes.
Speaking of the Catholic Church, this is a church that once had its own army, but preached peace and love. Sounds good to me, I'm joining! The worst part is this: After the September 11th attacks, many ignorant and jus tplain stupid Christians have critcisized Islam for them. Islam, just like Christianity, preaches peace and love, yet BOTH spread through war (remember the Roman Empire adopting it?).Reply: Again the All-Mighty One works thru human agency and only He can judge.
Can anyone explain how such a true religion has been abused, misinterpretted (or over interpretted, exploited, etc.? I can't begin to understand how one whose knowledge of its history can just keep on believing like there's nothing that ever went wrong.Reply: By whose standards? Christ will be the judge of that in the end. Make the best of it, while you can.
Eric
P.S. Praise the Lord! For he can walk on water, but cannot survive crusifiction.Reply: He did survive. That is the whole idea. That is what He is all about. He overcame death and showed us how to do likewise.
KYMAK agent
Modified by Douglas A... at Tue, Jan 22, 2002, 13:55:20
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Re: Christians Re: Christians -- Douglas A... Top of thread Archive
Posted by: Eric ®
01/22/2002, 20:17:37
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Douglas wrote: "I had that experience (I felt drawn) when I was 11 years old. I choose to follow the Holy Spirit then." Keep in mind, Douglas, that many of us who have wanted deeply to feel such a drawing have been let down. We have later found out that what we didn't feel has led us to much more than what any religion can offer us.
The rest of your replies to me is just rhetoric, exactly what Friars and Jesuit Missionaries were trained to do. Believe me, you'll have to do more than bear you witness to me. If you came here to honestly deabte theology, please do so. Don't give me your rhetoric.
Eric
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Re: Christians Re: Re: Christians -- Eric Top of thread Archive
Posted by: douglas a... ®
01/23/2002, 11:04:37
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:=Douglas wrote: "I had that experience (I felt drawn) when I was 11 years old. I choose to follow the Holy Spirit then."
Keep in mind, Douglas, that many of us who have wanted deeply to feel such a drawing have been let down. We have later found out that what we didn't feel has led us to much more than what any religion can offer us.
Reply: I never consciously sought the experience. It has made my life extremely difficult. However, I would not trade it for the World.
The rest of your replies to me is just rhetoric, exactly what Friars and Jesuit Missionaries were trained to do. Believe me, you'll have to do more than bear you witness to me. If you came here to honestly deabte theology, please do so. Don't give me your rhetoric.Reply: My reply was in kind. There is no way you can understand my arguement if you have no desire to accept the premise.
However,there are a few points you should honestly address rather than blame my "rhetoric". For instance, judging past acts by current social standards is a cowardly cope out.
EricKYMAK agent
Reply: What will you be doing in y3k?
Modified by douglas a... at Wed, Jan 23, 2002, 11:16:24
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Testimonies, and cold-hard fact. Re: Re: Christians -- Eric Top of thread Archive
Posted by: Waspinatrix ®
01/23/2002, 11:54:21
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Eric, if you want to debate using facts you might want to a) not 'bate' Christians into expressing their opinion (ref: the very first line inyour opening post!) if you're only going to trounce on them for sharing with you. and b) present *ALL* the facts for this so-called debate, not just the rhetorical BS of 'look what the chatholics (or the puritans, or ad nasium) did! Those horrid Christians!'. I tried to present a ballanced view with a 'yes Christians did this, but Religion X did that.' You chose to attack my 'logic'.
And this is all about a belief system. A question of what people have faith in. And you certainly have been liberal in the airing of your opinion. Which I don't have a problem with. But then you support your thesis with well choosen 'facts'. Which I don't have a problem with, per se - lots of people (including me) do it to make a point... What I don't like is that you disreguard the 'facts' of the oposing agument, that is if you can't somehow twist them to fit your own convoluted 'logic'. And you tell anyone who has an oposing view that 'they should try harder, and that they aren't worth your time.' As if you and you alone are the only barer of truth.... Maybe you ought to convert to Christianity, you already have the bad attitude you've accused us of having.
Your pseudo-intellectuallism is almost as funny to read as Martin's pseudo-kindness. Well, not quite... I actually laugh at what Martin and Zoe have to say to each other.
You've obviously 'made up your mind' on this subject. It's you who've wasted your (and our) time by bringing up something you didn't want to discuss (unless it's of course on your terms).
As Martin would say,
Lovingly~
Waspi~
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Praise to Doug Re: Christians -- Douglas A... Top of thread Archive
Posted by: Waspinatrix ®
01/23/2002, 11:24:47
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Doug, may I someday be as elloquintly to the point as you were.
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Re: Praise to YHWH~YHS Re: Praise to Doug -- Waspinatrix Top of thread Archive
Posted by: Douglas A... ®
01/24/2002, 09:15:00
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:=Doug, may I someday be as elloquintly to the point as you were. When I am, I give credit to YHWH~YHS. When I'm not it must be my fault.
KYMAK agent
Modified by Douglas A... at Thu, Jan 24, 2002, 09:16:45
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Not a christian, but... Re: A question to Christians -- Eric Top of thread Archive
Posted by: Tyler ®
01/22/2002, 14:49:44
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Eric asked, "How can you believe that such a religion can be true?" The answer is rather simple: they want to believe it.
This is, in fact, the answer for virtually all beliefs that people hold. Almost never are beliefs actually founded on a rational basis, and by far the majority of people simply believe whatever is most comfortable to believe.
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Re: Not a christian, but... Re: Not a christian, but... -- Tyler Top of thread Archive
Posted by: Eric ®
01/22/2002, 20:19:27
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All I can say in reply to that is thank goodness that some of us choose to take the path less traveled.
Eric
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Re: Not a christian, but... Re: Not a christian, but... -- Tyler Top of thread Archive
Posted by: grendel ®
01/24/2002, 02:13:38
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"Almost never are beliefs actually founded on a rational basis, and by far the majority of people simply believe whatever is most comfortable to believe." of course. faith is non-rational. any believer, christian or otherwise, would agree.
i also agree that far too many christians use religion as a means to an end. a belief in god makes many comfortable. however, this does nothing to discount the possibility of god. it seems that you are arguing against the believer, and not the belief itself.
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Re: A question to Christians Re: A question to Christians -- Eric Top of thread Archive
Posted by: sojourner ®
01/22/2002, 22:47:25
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Hi Eric, Just curious as to whether or not you believe the people in the bible, ie. Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Paul, etc are historical figures?
- sojourner
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Re: A question to Christians Re: A question to Christians -- Eric Top of thread Archive
Posted by: JCBROOKSBY ®
01/24/2002, 23:15:32
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eric, you have some great questions. i believe that christ when he was upon the earth and during his ministry he established his gospel and teachings to mankind. he taught the new law being that he fulfilled the law of moses. he taught mankind to become perfect even as he and his father were perfect. do you think he would teach something that we could not attain. no way!. it is posible to attain perfection but only through the attonement of jesus christ and perfection can only be attained in the next life. think about this, does it take away from or add to gods glory to have his children become like him. i would submit that it ADDS TO HIS GLORY AND HAPPINESS.
as for the many christian churches out thier that teach different things. can they all be ture. no way.......
sure they may teach some ture principles but not all. of course they is a true church out thier. one that teaches all and has all athority. seek and you will find it. but don't ever expect the followers of christ to be perfect......
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