Insect eating
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Posted by: james ® 10/17/2002, 04:41:02 Author Profile Mail author

Here is an interesting article about insect eating. Apparently "Mormon crickets" were an important food for some Native American tribes. http://www.hollowtop.com/finl_html/amerindians.htm I suppose white Mormon settlers and Indians wouldn't quite see eye to eye about the "Miracle of the seagulls". Perhaps they were overlooking a valuable resource. Maybe god was trying to send Mormons some needed protein! http://www.lds-mormon.com/seagulls.shtml Apparently the event wasn't quite so divine. Has any of you all eaten any insects? Additional website on insect foods: http://www.food-insects.com/book7_31/Chapter%2002%20N%20American%20Indigenous.htm Modified by james at Thu, Oct 17, 2002, 04:44:51

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Re: Insect eating
Re: Insect eating -- james		Top of thread	Archive

Posted by: lonedove ® 10/17/2002, 10:46:02 Author Profile Mail author

Hi, Thanks for the posts. I forgot which Indian tribe settlements were in the west. I sure know the cherokee Indians didn't condone this. I know the military train the recruits, if no food, to eat them buggers...ack. Never have eaten an insect, well, have to take that back. Was about 10, forgot where I was, when I was offered something fried. Wasn't told what it was. I took one bite and ewwwwwwww..then told it was fried grasshopper. Needless to say I ran outside upchucking. Was interesting about the seagulls and the Mormons. That sure did present a reasoning there. Thanks.. LDove Modified by lonedove at Thu, Oct 17, 2002, 10:49:14

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Environmently friendly
Re: Re: Insect eating -- lonedove		Top of thread	Archive

Posted by: james ® 10/18/2002, 06:54:23 Author Profile Mail author

Well I am not suprised at all that you found eating an insect unpleasant. Perhaps its outside of the foods you are used to eating. It is however environmentally friendly to have tolerance for insects, or even perhaps eating a few. Its strange, I offered some organic chocolate (regular organic chocolate without any 'special ingredients')to a friend and she wouldn't eat it. She believed that they contained insects. Apparently, its healthier to get all the pesicide residues over microscopic bits of insects. It turns out that conventional foods have plenty of insect bits. The FDA sets acceptible limits on insect bits, rat hairs and the like... http://www.mndaily.com/daily/2000/10/25/editorial_opinions/oo1025/ Unfortunately its going to appear food no matter what. But an acceptible limit is all that is required for human health and welfare. I think for the most part this comes down to microscopic examination of most food items. I have eaten insects on purpose. I have tried steamed Silkworm Pupae (Bundigee). This is a left over edible product of the silk industry. In some Asian countries this is eaten as a protein rich snack. In other countries it usually becomes animal feed. It tastes a bit like 'game meat', as mulberry leaves are fairly bitter. I have eaten ant eggs and aphids. I haven't gotten the nerve up to try caterpillars or grasshoppers or beetles.

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Re: Environmently friendly
Re: Environmently friendly -- james		Top of thread	Archive

Posted by: lonedove ® 10/18/2002, 09:01:56 Author Profile Mail author

Hi, I think the association of the brown fluid that grasshoppers excrete.. may have had something to do with it. Your friend may have been given chocolate covered ants at one time, thus she had a repulsion towards chocolate. I remember as a kid, in flour my mom had, there were some very tiny black bugs. She threw the whole container away. When I asked her why she didn't just spoon out the tiny bugs, she said all of the flour probably has them in it. I can remember thinking, no matter what, the tiny eggs are probably in other flour that you just dont see. Myself, have had flour with tiny bugs in in and scooped out the bugs and used it. The url you posted was good. Rat hairs, cockkroaches, flies are a bit too much. When I think of flies, thoughts of them being on dead things, excrement... Ugh.. Cockroaches are known for carrying disease. Rat hairs, means rats were in the food and rats carry the plaugue. I suppose they feel people will cook food as it is recommended. Am sure you have seen the recall of all that deli meat. They said the source was at a sewer. Who isn't to say that rats somehow came up out the the sewer. Who knows! People definitely don't get enough protein. Your eating the steamed Silkworm Pupae (Bundigee) which tastes like meat is interesting. Since they are cooked, I wouldn't mind trying it. Thanks for the reply and the url. LDove Modified by lonedove at Fri, Oct 18, 2002, 09:04:44

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Distinction between insects
Re: Re: Environmently friendly -- lonedove		Top of thread	Archive

Posted by: james ® 10/19/2002, 04:29:09 Author Profile Mail author

Hello, Yes I would definately feel differently about eating a cockroach. I don't think I would ever try that. Perhaps termites or bees, maybe even grasshoppers, something that is clean and the likelyhood of getting diseases or parasites are very low. I think brine fly larva would be interesting. I understand that they are harvested from highly alkaline lakes which are very pure(most things cant survive in these lakes except: certain algae, certain shrimp, and the larva of brine flies)They are then rolled with a rolling pin which removes the outer cuticle. The result is supposed to be very tasty, digestible and textured something like rice. I forgot about eating a small worm in a peach. I saw it in the fruit and just kept eating it. I suppose that I probably already ate a number of them already. Actually that little bite was better tasting than the rest of the fruit. I think it concentrated the flavor. Certainly it wasn't 'discusting' as it was a pretty peach color, and very small. I think I WOULD be discusted by very large ugly insects which have green or yellow guts...especially if eaten raw...

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Interesting post!
Re: Insect eating -- james		Top of thread	Archive

Posted by: Gunnar ® 10/21/2002, 20:55:01 Author Profile Mail author

I tried eating fried meal worms once at a UC Davis Picnic Day Demonstration. They were a bit crunchy, but not at all bad tasting. In a way, it seems sort of strange that so many of us have such an aversion to eating insects while enjoying shrimp, which are also a type of arthropod (not to mention crabs and lobsters). Some insects, I understand, even taste a lot like shrimp. I have long been aware that there is an irreducible residue of insect parts in much of the food we buy. This should not be a health hazard, though, in properly cooked food. Gunnar

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Keeping Kosher/M&Ms
Re: Interesting post! -- Gunnar		Top of thread	Archive

Posted by: james ® 10/22/2002, 05:14:43 Author Profile Mail author

Hello Gunnar, I remember watching something on T.V. about Kosher foods. The rabi didn't approve of M&M candies because one of the dyes came from a beatle. He said that no insect was kosher. I don't know if that was tradition, but I seem to remember that certain insects were considered clean. But, perhaps jewish people know something that I don't when they read the bible. I am not sure either how people gain aversions to particular foods. I am think more in terms of culture. I have heard that some african tribes find the idea of eating fish as being discusting, but eat insects. Yes, the shrimp, crab comparision is pretty interesting. Especially considering that most crabs and lobsters are bottom feeders eating decaying matter. Grasshopers eat fresh vegetable matter, so what is it that makes them discusting? Certain Bird eggs are discusting to some people. I once asked someone if they would eat seagull eggs, she said, "NO way, they are scavengers" I then asked if she ate crab, lobster or halibut. She said yes. Those were all bottom feeders, feeding on dead things. I suppose that certain mammals are discusting, like mice, rats. The most discusting thing in the mammal world would be things that eat fecal matter. Pigs, dogs, horses are all known to eat fecal matter. Dogs and pigs even like eating other animals matter. I have been losing my taste for pork because of this. I especially am disinterested in imported pork. I think the general 'rule' is that vegetarian animals are thought of as being clean. The exception being fish, I haven't really heard of many fish being discusting on the basis that they ate other fish. I would be concerned about habitually eating fish high in the trophic level like most sharks, tuna and yellow tail. When I have fish I like to get vegetarian or plankton feeding fish, or ones that eat fish low in the trophic level. I would be concerned about toxin accumulation. Reptiles? Amphibians? many find those discusting. I am not sure why. I have never tried turtle, but I wouldn't be opposed to it if I knew that it wasn't endangered. Snakes might be ok. I have tried frogs and I think they taste great. A muslim guy said he would never eat a frog as he didn't know what it ate. He also said that he thought that it eats flies was discusting. Somehow for me that isn't so discusting.

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On "disgusting" foods.
Re: Keeping Kosher/M&Ms -- james		Top of thread	Archive

Posted by: Gunnar ® 10/22/2002, 22:31:48 Author Profile Mail author

Like you, I wasn't previously aware that Jews consider all insects to be non-kosher. If so, it seems remarkable that John the Baptist subsisted on locusts and wild honey while living in the wilderness, according to Matthew 3:4 and Mark 1:6. Besides that, I never heard of Jews having a problem with eating honey, which is a product of bees. If all insects are non-kosher, why would honey be any more kosher than a food dye that is also a product derived from insects? I suppose this is just another example of the illogic that is endemic to religion in general. One thing that most (including me) would consider disgusting as a food is worms. Do you remember the flap over the false rumor some time ago that MacDonalds augmented their beef with earthworms in order to save money? Of course this made no sense, as earthworms actually cost more per pound than beef, but I knew of one woman who was so repulsed by the idea that to this day, she still cannot bring herself to eat a MacDonalds hamburger, even though she now knows that the rumor was false! Gunnar

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Carob?
Re: On "disgusting" foods. -- Gunnar		Top of thread	Archive

Posted by: james ® 10/23/2002, 03:50:45 Author Profile Mail author

Hello Gunnar, Some people think that these 'Locusts' are actually carob pods. This article seems to differ with that opinion. http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/3664/locusts.html I doubt that this will change many minds about insects. In any case these references are from the New Testament, not really Jewish sources. The point about honey is pretty interesting, as all through the bible honey has positive associations, usually symbolic for wealth, health and abundance. I don't recall any rumor about worms. I haven't tried them, and I am afraid of soil born disease, especially if collected in the city. Can you believe I am more afraid of the human environment, rather than the organism itself? Visualize an innocent little worm contaiminated by city life! There is a type of wild animal that sort of looks like a pig. This lives in countries that are primarily muslim. A documentary said that its endangered due to other factors than direct human consumption. They thought it would have become totally extinct if it weren't for its superficial appearance to a pig. This animal WOULD meet jewish and muslim dietary codes as its not a pig, it chews cud and has a parted hoof. The most consistent dietary law in relationship to religion I have found must be Jainism. They have the idea of "ahisma" or "dynamic non-harm". All animal life is excluded from the diet. Including insects, snails, birds, fish and not just the usual birds and mammals as 'vegetarian'. Many also avoid certain vegetables as their harvest are associated with excessive killing of life, such as potatoes, garlic. Digging in the ground disturbs life forms. Eating honey is considered a violent act against bees. They do eat milk and cheese, I suppose its up to the individual to determine how much harm milking does to an animal. Modified by james at Wed, Oct 23, 2002, 03:54:08

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Re: Carob
Re: Carob? -- james		Top of thread	Archive

Posted by: lonedove ® 10/23/2002, 12:54:34 Author Profile Mail author

Hi Gunnar and James :-) Haven't been reading the posts ... need to keep up with them. James your comment: I don't recall any rumor about worms. I haven't tried them, and I am afraid of soil born disease, especially if collected in the city. Can you believe I am more afraid of the human environment, rather than the organism itself? Visualize an innocent little worm contaiminated by city life! So True!!! Main topic of this is the consumption of different insects. Getting a little off topic here... saw that they are going back to organic farming. One lady here, is growing veggies, etc. with NO dirt. Is really something. She was telling of the plants getting the nutrients, and they not losing the nutrients that the soil deprives the plants of. Interesting concept. The earthworms exposed to the city, pesticides, etc etc. That is depressing. Saw my neurologist today, and told him of the 25,000+ gallons of water that leaked from neighbors pool. And of the 2 mangy dogs in that yard. And of the dang rash I have had all summer. I couldn't go outside without getting more bites..skeeters, mites, etc. Having Multiple Sclerosis, my immune system is compromised anyway. The EPA, CDC, health dept ignore so many things. And the health dept. not doing anything but hang up on me. He commented on all that is in the ground, and people don't realise. I sure miss country life. Thanks for keeping the posts going! :-) LD

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Points well taken!
Re: Carob? -- james		Top of thread	Archive

Posted by: Gunnar ® 10/23/2002, 17:08:37 Author Profile Mail author

Now that you mention the carob or locust tree, I recall vaguely having read something similar a long time ago before I entered my present stage of late (very late) youth. Plus, as you said, the New Testament is certainly not accepted by practicing Jews as scripture. Still, though, John the Baptist was certainly a Jew, and it is not likely that he would have subsisted on anything that was non-kosher if he could have avoided doing so. Eating carob pods instead of locusts would then make more sense, if it is true that all insects are non-kosher according to Jewish dietary laws. I eat carob myself on infrequent occasions, and enjoy it, though not as much as I enjoy chocolate. Like most food preferences, however, it is an acquired taste. There are a lot of foods I greatly enjoy now for which I once had little or no appreciation. I can well believe that you are more afraid of the human environment from which earthworms often come than of the organisms themselves. Anyone who is knowledgeable about disease realizes that the vast majority of pathogens that are dangerous to humans are found only in other humans and their waste products. There will always be some pathogens from other species that occasionally cross over to humans, becoming new sources of epidemics, but most pathogens that infect other species do not have much affect on humans without first mutating to a new form that can thrive also in our species. Thanks for the interesting and informative comments! Gunnar

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Raw carob and avocado
Re: Points well taken! -- Gunnar		Top of thread	Archive

Posted by: james ® 10/24/2002, 00:03:13 Author Profile Mail author

Gunnar Ever try raw carob powder mixed with avocado? Its pretty good, it can be like pudding or a brownie depending on how much powder you mix with th avocado. Its also excellent with soaked sunflower seed mixed with a food processor. I think its helpful to appreciate carob in its own right. Its not nearly as bitter as chocolate so it doesn't need as much sweetening. This could be part of the reason why its an aquired taste. If one is expecting carob to taste exactly like chocolate, usually it misses the mark. But for me its acceptible, and preferable to eat late at night. I still eat chocolate and enjoy it as an occational treat.

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